cichorioid daisies I

I can recognise some cichorioid daisies (daisies with only ligulate flowers), but there's a large group that I haven't yet learnt to recognise. These include most members of the Hieracium/Crepis/Pilosella group.

I have recently observed two plants, which I have tentatively identified (from the phyllaries) as Crepis, but I haven't identified the species.

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I'm not sure whether they're both the same species. (The structure of the capitulescence appears to differ.)